Today, The Reluctant Eater talks with Dan Borgmann at Vendor Hippo. After a few years in Aeronautics, Dan eventually turned his love of food into his first business, Chocolates by Charlie (a gourmet chocolate company in Denver). He has a passion for educating children about their local business and agricultural communities. Now he owns and runs Vendor Hippo, a company aimed at making life easier for small vendors selling products at farmers markets and the market owners themselves.
The Reluctant Eater: What is your relationship with food?
Dan Borgmann: My relationship with food is always changing. I love to experiment with new flavors, colors, and textures. Growing up, my mother knew seven recipes - one for Monday, one for Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. and repeat. I didn’t use fresh garlic until I was twenty-something for goodness sake! As soon as I learned how to experiment in the kitchen I just went crazy.
TRE: What is the main thing that motivates you to care about food?
DB: Eating great food is like having great sex. It fires off endorphins in your brain that make you happy and satisfied. I am a proponent of eating healthy but come on - life is short. If that double-cheese bacon burger is going to put a smile on your face go for it once in a while. Have you ever heard of a woman asking for a box of tofu for Valentines Day? I guess what motivates me most about food is the pleasure it brings - everything from shopping, to preparing, to eating. A perfect evening for my wife and I is spent in the kitchen - a little wine, the smell of sauteed garlic perhaps, laughing, a couple aprons and little else. Ha! Now that’s motivation!
TRE: You make a good point. I’ll just have to interject that, for me, how I feel after eating is almost (if not more) important. So the bacon double cheese burger gets docked if it means I’ll need to sit down for a recovery period afterwards.
So, with all the time and energy you put into farmers markets and the local food scene, am I to presume that is what gives you the most food pleasure?
DB: For most folks food and the farmers’ markets go hand in hand. Surveys show that the most popular attraction are the samples of food people get to try when they walk down the market isle. Wonderful cheese, pesto, salsa, you name it. I get excited talking to vendors because of the passion they have in their products. They love to tell you how they make it, how long it takes to grow it, how they got the recipe passed down from their grandmother or whatever. Seeing the pride in their smile when they make a sale just warms my heart. It’s not about the money - it’s about another human being expressing themselves and having the guts to put themselves out there, showing you what they have made, and waiting for your opinion.
I have a four year old boy - Chopper. There is nothing quite like the look of pride on his face when he comes home with some silly picture he drew at preschool and I hang it on the fridge. It almost makes me freaking cry every time! And I see the same expression on the faces of new vendors when they realize that some stranger actually loves what they have presented them.
For the food vendors, their product is their expression - their art. Seeing them reap the rewards of their labor definitely gives me pleasure.
TRE: Tell us a little more about the work you to facilitating between market owners and the people selling goods at the market (the vendors).
DB: When I was a vendor myself years ago I just fell in love with the farmers markets. Although I no longer wished to get up at 5 am 5 days a week and put up a tent I wanted to do something that involved the markets - that is why I created Vendor Hippo.
Standing in my booth I used to look around in amazement at my fellow vendors. There were ex-CEOs, marketing experts, attorneys, inventory specialists, and everything else you could imagine. While each of us brought our own specialty and experience to the market no single vendor had everything. So while perhaps John at the salsa booth was killer in advertising he had no idea what to do when it came to ordering his raw materials. On the other side was Sue who knew everything about ordering materials but was clueless when it came to advertising. I thought that if there were a way for all of us to pool our experience and communicate with one another then all of our businesses could do better.
A funny thing about the markets is that when one vendor does well it usually means that everyone is doing well. Likewise, when one does poorly then all seem to do as well. It’s like there is some kind of strange aura that occurs at the markets that creates this phenomenon. Working together and sharing ideas does help. Unfortunately, there are as many personalities at the markets as their are vendors. Add to that the fact that these folks are entrepreneurs which means they are intrinsically independent and at times stubborn. Individually, vendors are some of the most caring, giving, and generous people on the planet. But getting them to do anything together is like herding cats!
In today’s business environment where networking is king, building your business means working with your neighbors to help them build theirs. No one can afford to isolate themselves and this is particularly true for the farmers markets. I believe that now more than ever it is the job of the market manager to do more than just lease the parking lot and line up the tents. They need to bring their vendors together, help them succeed not only as individuals but also as a team. The manager should be like the General and the vendors their troops. It might be an over-dramatization but think of the market as going into battle and the General is there to rally the troops.
All too often however, the older generation market manager still thinks of his/her market as if it were an island or some sort of closed ecosystem. In their attempt to circle the wagons and ward off trespassers they inadvertently suffocate those that matter most - the vendors. In my opinion the market manager works for the vendors - not the other way around. Not surprisingly, the new generation of managers see this and it works for them.
The Hippo targets those who are willing to try new ideas and who welcome technology into the markets. Markets should be equipped with wi-fi, credit cards should flow through them like they do at the mall, and vendors should be able communicate with each other and the managers quickly and easily. Now, it is true that most of the dinosaur managers out there don’t like us much. Last year I was even kicked out of a market by a manager who said “We don’t need that internet thing”.
TRE: I do understand how “old timers” would think that farmers markets and the internet are mutually exclusive, but if you want to reach out to the younger generation, that’s where you need to be - that’s where the truth comes from.
You mentioned working together, but at least from the viewpoint of the casual observer, it doesn’t seem like vendors do that. I’d love to see more vendors recommending each other (”oh John’s salsa would go great with that fish”). What are some other things vendors can do to improve their business?
DB: You’re absolutely right. When a consumer walks into a market they should feel like they are walking into a community rather than just rows of individual businesses. That is what the mall is for. A market is a community event and vendors always help themselves when they help each other.
Most folks, when they go to a farmers market have no real purpose other than to shop. My argument is that consumers don’t think of the farmers market as a destination, rather they think of the market as someplace they will visit while on their way to Whole Foods. The opportunity is SO there if only the market owners, managers, and vendors would get their heads out of their butts. Sorry, this frustrates me to no end.
Consumers visit the market with money in their pockets looking for something unique to spend it on. It should be like taking candy from a baby. I used to meet customers all the time that said “I brought a $20 bill to the market to spend. I will just browse the vendors until I find something to spend it on.” A lot of times when parents take their kids to the market they will give them money to spend also. They want to support the market, they want to support the vendors, and they want to spend their money, but the key is that they don’t go there with the intention of buying anything in particular.
If markets acted as a whole, if they had a General out front leading the way, they could up-sell the whole damn thing. Over and over again I talk to market owners from all over the country who are doing this and guess what - it works! There are tons of ideas out there. One is to create menu lists for the customers which include ingredients from several of the vendors is a great idea. When a hungry customer arrives at the market they get a whole meal idea which they can buy totally at the market. Save them the trip to Whole Foods! Another is that during the holidays they can set up special gift ideas that include several vendors pooling their products together. It’s not rocket science - it just takes a manager who gets it through their skull that helping the vendors helps everybody.
You asked: “How can vendors improve their business?” That’s a huge question. How much time do you have? Ha ha!
TRE: Ha! You said you used to be a vendor yourself, what did you sell?
DB: I owned a spice and tea retail shop in downtown Denver. Our booth at the farmers market sold primarily spices and while I was there it was a big hit. On a good day I could sell $2,000+ worth of product by myself. I typically did 5 markets per week from Longmont to Denver to Vail. It was a great experience I will never forget. The best part is that it introduced me to hundreds of vendors, many of which became dear friends.
It’s hard work doing that many markets in a week. Early hours, hauling tons of stuff around, all while continuously making product. I had many friends that did more markets than I. One friend was doing 9 markets a week! I have great respect for vendors after knowing what they have to go through. However, I don’t miss putting up and tearing down the booth every day.
Unfortunately, my company was a partnership and after a couple of years the partners and I didn’t see eye to eye on things and so I sold out my portion of the company and moved on. I have been asked several times if I would ever consider being a market manager but the answer so far is no. While I may hack on market managers quite a bit I have great respect for them as well. There is a lot more to starting a market and being a market manager than most people realize. I don’t think I would consider the position because honestly I don’t think I have enough knowledge or experience.
TRE: How do you think the current economy will factor into the coming market season, and are you already seeing the effects?
DB: That is a good question and one which people will argue both sides; does a bad economy hurt or help the farmers market. I was surprised last year to find a much smaller impact due to the high fuel prices than I expected. I had expected to find a big hole in the markets once gas hit $4 a gallon but I didn’t see it. Indeed, some vendors really did struggle with the fuel costs. For example the farmer who has to use large trucks to get his product to the market. Those kind of folks definitely were impacted. But by in large the higher fuel costs did not keep people from going to the markets and sales continued.
When you purchase products from vendors at the farmers market you naturally expect to pay a little bit more than you would at a store. For the most part folks don’t go to the markets looking for a bargain and like I said before, most customers at the market bring “X” amount of dollars to spend at the market regardless of the price of the individual products.
The impact of a sluggish economy is felt behind the scenes. Vendors and market owners are small businesses which are impacted by higher materials costs, higher taxes, etc. just like any other small business. Their profit margin is typically quite small and they are already charging premium prices so if the costs associated with raw materials or other business expenses go up they don’t have much wiggle-room. If the current situation continues there is a good chance we will see fewer vendors at the markets.
On the other side of the coin, others might argue that when the economy goes south more and more people start looking for alternate avenues for income and starting their own businesses thus raising the number of vendors at the markets.
Here is my concern regarding the effects of a sliding or unpredictable economy. Vendors will come and go with the economy either way. Many of them can operate on a very low budget or even close the doors for a period of time if need be. My biggest concern is for the market owners. They have to earn a profit large enough to sustain operations. Those operations involve things like leasing of land, trash, bathroom facilities, employees, insurance, and much more. What I do not want to see is the “mallization” of the farmers market industry. Yes, that is a new word I just made up - mallization. Let me explain.
Right now, when you visit farmers markets across the country, what you love is that you never know just what you will find there. Each market has unique vendors which give it that community experience. Now, what I see happening is that some of the larger market owners are branching out and covering larger areas owning 5 or 6 markets in a given area. What happens is that these market owners tend to have the same vendors at each of their markets, the same style or look to their market, and block out the atypical vendor. I know of one such company here in Colorado that has gone so far as to prohibit their vendors from participating in anyone else’s market within a certain mile radius.
Currently there are about 100 markets here in Colorado. I don’t know for sure but of those 100 markets probably 90% of them are owned by different market owners. What happens if that changes to 50%? What happens if one market owner controls an entire city? I will tell you what would happen - every market you walk into would start to look exactly the same - same signs, same vendors, same everything just like walking into a mall. Hence the term mallization.
I could ramble on about this for hours. But, that is one of the reasons why I am so hard on market owners and managers. I talk to folks all the time who want to start their own market someplace. I usually try to deter them unless they have the experience and knowledge it takes to actually run a market because when a market fails so do the vendors and it all leads to mallization!
Don’t think it won’t happen. Market owners are very competitive. I know of one here last year that went so far as to send employees out to kick down their competitors signs on market day to confuse would-be customers. It gets pretty ugly. While it is difficult for smaller markets to succeed, the profit potential for a successful market can be huge. And you know what happens when lots of money gets involved - the claws come out.
TRE: Wow…that IS intense. I had no idea!
What is your favorite thing to buy at the farmers market? Or do you just have $20 burning a hole in your pocket…
DB: Ok, I will get off my soapbox now. I have owned 3 businesses. I know what it’s like to pour your heart and soul into something only to have it slip through your fingers. I do not live in some sort of fairytale land - I know that when you go into business you take your chances. I have won and I have lost. I see the same light in the eyes of the vendors I work with and just as I, they are willing to take their chances. What I can’t tolerate is indifference, whether it be on the part of the market owner or other vendors, people should not just sit aside and watch as someone else’s business suffers. We should do what we can to help out out neighbors.
So, my favorite thing to buy at the farmers market is…cheese. I can never seem to walk by a table with cheese on it without trying some and I usually can’t walk away without buying some. And no, unfortunately I never have $20 burning a hole in my pocket.
TRE: How about a favorite meal? Or type/ethnicity of food?
DB: As I said, we love to cook. Especially with lots of colors, textures, aromas, and flavors. Anything that splatters and smokes up the kitchen is good with me. Mexican, Italian, Chinese, it’s all good.
I hate to admit it but, remember I told you about my mother and her 7 meal plan, my favorite dish of all time will always be her meatloaf. Love you Mom!
TRE: Thank you so much Dan, you’ve obviously have a lot to say - and some great insights - about farmers markets and how to make them flourish. If you want to do another interview in the future, we’d be happy to slide the soapbox over in your direction again. Haha. For now, do you have any last minute words of wisdom or advice for our readers?
DB: I just want to wish everyone a great market season. Thank you Ryan, it was my pleasure. You’re next.
Please check out Dan’s site Vendor Hippo for market & vendor directories, as well as forums and his blog (and even a social network!). If you are a vendor or market owner in need of advertising, help selling your product on line, or accounting software, get in touch with Dan, he’d be glad to help you out! Keep your eyes open, you may see his signature brown vest wandering around your market this summer!
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